November 12345, a Cessna 172, 20 miles northeast of Sugarloaf Mountain, level
VFR seven thousand five hundred, en route to Winston-Salem, North Carolina."

For those who like to write lists, it would look like this:

1) FULL callsign;
2) Type aircraft;
3) Current location;
4) Current altitude and altitude to which you are climbing/descending; and,
5) Destination.

There is a method behind my madness. Most Center controllers will find this
format comfortable and oddly familiar. That's because it's the format that the
flight plan is written on a flight progress strip.

Guess I will not listen to hangar talk and continue giving the whole spiel,
until advised different.
Hank

"Hankal" > wrote in message
...
>
> November 12345, a Cessna 172, 20 miles northeast of Sugarloaf
> Mountain, level VFR seven thousand five hundred, en route to
> Winston-Salem, North Carolina."
>
> For those who like to write lists, it would look like this:
>
> 1) FULL callsign;
> 2) Type aircraft;
>

I would combine the two, "Skyhawk 12345". Please, do not combine them as
"Cessna 172 12345"

"Hankal" > wrote in message

>
> Guess I will not listen to hangar talk and continue giving the whole
> spiel, until advised different.

The part you quoted isn't quite in context without the preceding section:
<quote>
....I've been told by some approach controllers that they want all the flight
information on the initial check in. I can't imagine why, but I won't argue
about it. I prefer this method straight out of the AIM.

"Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories."

That serves to get my attention. It's short and lessens the chance that
you'll transmit at the same time someone else is transmitting. It's just a
good idea, period. Once I'm off the landline, I'll say, "Calling Atlanta
Center, say again." You, realizing that Center controllers are slow, will
say, "Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories." I'll hit the
CODE key on my keyboard, type in N12345 and press ENTER. Seeing as it's me
doing the typing, I'll go back and make sure I really hit the CODE key this
time, type in N12345 and press ENTER. (I always said I could be a great
controller if I could just learn to type.) The computer will spit out a
beacon code and I'll say, "Cessna 12345 squawk 3231 and go ahead."
</quote>

The quote above is from a Center controller whose job is a bit different
from a TRACON controller. If providing all information on the initial
call-up works for you in your area, by all means continue doing so.

However, if you're not already in the system (e.g., known to the
controller), the controller may spend a few seconds scanning his scope for
your tail number when you call him up the first time. That may cause a
complete re-transmission of your request which ties up the airwaves even
longer.

To minimize this possibility, be sure to use "VFR" right after your tail
number on initial call-up.

Another source of information is AIM §4-2-3.a.1:
<quote>
1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call
you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller or
FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
(a) Name of the facility being called;
(b) Your full aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as
discussed in paragraph 4-2-4, Aircraft Call Signs;
(c) When operating on an airport surface, state your position.
(d) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short; and
(e) The word "Over" if required.

EXAMPLE-
1. "New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo."
2. "Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I-F-R
Memphis."
3. "Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V-F-R traffic
advisories."
</quote>

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

In a previous article, "John T" > said:
>EXAMPLE-
>1. "New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo."
>2. "Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I-F-R
>Memphis."
>3. "Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V-F-R traffic
>advisories."
></quote>

It's a good thing they put dashes between the letters there to indicate
you spell those things out. I've been saying "viffer" and "eye-fer" all
this time.

:-)

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Tech Services - We Aim To Please, We Shoot To Kill"
-- H. Wade Minter, ASR

>I would combine the two, "Skyhawk 12345". Please, do not combine them as
>"Cessna 172 12345"
>

I never use Cessna 172. Always use Skyhawk. Of course some controllers come
back "say aircraft"

You might know what your aircraft is, but don't expect everyone else to do
so. You are in a 172 offficially, so why not announce yourself as so?

I fly from a major international airport, they aren't interested that I fly
a brand new Archer, they tell all the 737's and Airbus's to "look out for
the Cherokee on base" It's a PA28 to them.

John

"Hankal" > wrote in message
...
> >I would combine the two, "Skyhawk 12345". Please, do not combine them as
> >"Cessna 172 12345"
> >
>
> I never use Cessna 172. Always use Skyhawk. Of course some controllers
come
> back "say aircraft"

Here in the UK, the controllers like your first call to be just the approach
name and your callsign. Around London, they are usually very busy and often
will reply with a message to standby. When they come back to you, then you
give full details and intentions.

There is no point transmitting everything first call if he's not ready to
talk to you

John

"John T" > wrote in message
ws.com...
> "Hankal" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > Guess I will not listen to hangar talk and continue giving the whole
> > spiel, until advised different.
>
> The part you quoted isn't quite in context without the preceding section:
> <quote>
> ...I've been told by some approach controllers that they want all the
flight
> information on the initial check in. I can't imagine why, but I won't
argue
> about it. I prefer this method straight out of the AIM.
>
> "Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories."
>
> That serves to get my attention. It's short and lessens the chance that
> you'll transmit at the same time someone else is transmitting. It's just a
> good idea, period. Once I'm off the landline, I'll say, "Calling Atlanta
> Center, say again." You, realizing that Center controllers are slow, will
> say, "Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories." I'll hit
the
> CODE key on my keyboard, type in N12345 and press ENTER. Seeing as it's me
> doing the typing, I'll go back and make sure I really hit the CODE key
this
> time, type in N12345 and press ENTER. (I always said I could be a great
> controller if I could just learn to type.) The computer will spit out a
> beacon code and I'll say, "Cessna 12345 squawk 3231 and go ahead."
> </quote>
>
> The quote above is from a Center controller whose job is a bit different
> from a TRACON controller. If providing all information on the initial
> call-up works for you in your area, by all means continue doing so.
>
> However, if you're not already in the system (e.g., known to the
> controller), the controller may spend a few seconds scanning his scope for
> your tail number when you call him up the first time. That may cause a
> complete re-transmission of your request which ties up the airwaves even
> longer.
>
> To minimize this possibility, be sure to use "VFR" right after your tail
> number on initial call-up.
>
> Another source of information is AIM §4-2-3.a.1:
> <quote>
> 1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call
> you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller
or
> FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
> (a) Name of the facility being called;
> (b) Your full aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as
> discussed in paragraph 4-2-4, Aircraft Call Signs;
> (c) When operating on an airport surface, state your position.
> (d) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short; and
> (e) The word "Over" if required.
>
> EXAMPLE-
> 1. "New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo."
> 2. "Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I-F-R
> Memphis."
> 3. "Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V-F-R traffic
> advisories."
> </quote>
>
> --
> John T
> http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
> http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
> ____________________
>
>

"John Bishop" > wrote in message
...
>
> You might know what your aircraft is, but don't expect everyone else
> to do so. You are in a 172 offficially, so why not announce yourself
> as so?
>

What makes "172" any more "official" than "Skyhawk"?

In article >,
Hankal > wrote:
>
>I never use Cessna 172. Always use Skyhawk. Of course some controllers come
>back "say aircraft"

I've had controllers come back and say "say type aircraft" in response
to a spiel including "cessna 1 7 2 slant golf".

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote...
>
>> November 12345, a Cessna 172, 20 miles northeast of Sugarloaf

> I would combine the two, "Skyhawk 12345".

That will work, now that the A-4 has been retired from the Navy... ;-)

For those who don't have the list in front of them, a couple old rule of thumbs:

Initial contact:
Callsign
Altitude

"XYZ Center, Skyhawk 12345, 7,500'."

Then, after the controller responds,

Who you are
Where you are
What you want

"XYZ Center, Skyhawk 12345, 20 miles NE of Sugarloaf, 7,500', enroute
Winston-Salem, request VFR flight following."

Some a/c names won't work consistently no matter what you say....

"Maule 1234Foxtrot blah blah..."
"1234Foxtrot, Say type of aircraft?"
"A Maule, an M7" (M7 is what DUATs eats)
"uhhh, got it, Mooney 1234Foxtrot blah blah"
"Maule 1234F, wilco, that's a Maule, 180hp, single engine high wing, fixed
gear" (i.e. much slower than Mooney).
2 hours and 3 controllers away....
"Mooney 1234F blah blah"
etc

Sometimes it would be easier to call myself a Skyhawk.

"Hankal" > wrote in message
...
> >I would combine the two, "Skyhawk 12345". Please, do not combine them as
> >"Cessna 172 12345"
> >
>
> I never use Cessna 172. Always use Skyhawk. Of course some controllers
come
> back "say aircraft"

In a previous article, "Maule Driver" > said:
>Sometimes it would be easier to call myself a Skyhawk.

If it's a high wing, call yourself a Cessna. If it's a low wing, call
yourself a Cherokee.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The Write Many, Read Never drive. For those people that don't know
their system has a /dev/null already.
-- Rik Steenwinkel, singing the praises of 8mm Exabytes

That doesn't always work either. The other day I was
overtaking a twin on the way into Palo Alto (my home
airport). The twin called in after me and was told #1.
I was told to follow. I said "I'll need to make a 360".
"No, he's a Seneca, he's much faster than you".
"I'm overtaking him off my left wing right now"
"What kind of Cessna are you???"
"Skylane retractable, showing 140 indicated."
"OK, make a right 360".

And of course actually I'd called in as a Skylane.
Quite often I become a Skyhawk, but I've been lots
of other things too: Cherokee, Bonanza, ... I've never
been a Citation, which is a bit disappointing to both of us.

John

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Maule Driver" >
said:
> >Sometimes it would be easier to call myself a Skyhawk.
>
> If it's a high wing, call yourself a Cessna. If it's a low wing, call
> yourself a Cherokee.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> The Write Many, Read Never drive. For those people that don't know
> their system has a /dev/null already.
> -- Rik Steenwinkel, singing the praises of 8mm Exabytes

"John Harper" > wrote:
> That doesn't always work either. The other day I was
> overtaking a twin on the way into Palo Alto (my home
> airport). The twin called in after me and was told #1.
> I was told to follow. I said "I'll need to make a 360".
> "No, he's a Seneca, he's much faster than you".
> "I'm overtaking him off my left wing right now"
> "What kind of Cessna are you???"
> "Skylane retractable, showing 140 indicated."
> "OK, make a right 360".

I had one of those the other day.

We were coming back into HPN in a Bonanza. We were a little late so we
had the speed up in our descent, and were indicating about 200 MPH (170
KIAS, more or less). We were VFR, on about a 15 mile final, when NY
Aproach told us to stay off the localizer because he had a DC-9 behind
us on the ILS who was number 1 for the airport. Yeah right.

So we skootched a bit over to the left and kept chugging along. The
controller kept calling out the DC-9 traffic at 5 O'Clock, but we never
saw him. Eventually, we were down to about 5 miles out, still keeping
pace with the DC-9 (and still not having him in sight) when the
controller gave up and had us to a 360 to let him pass.

What ever happened to first come, first served? :-)

Transiting Pittsburgh, which seems to be referred to as
"Pits approach" in a Pitts Special took a couple of trys
but the controller figured it out.

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message m...
> Some a/c names won't work consistently no matter what you say....
>
> "Maule 1234Foxtrot blah blah..."

Baltimore Approach always managed to get our Navion identified as a Navajo.
I never understood this until it was pointed out to me that the approach controllers
just shorthand in a single letter for aircraft types on VFR popups. C for Cessna,
P for piper....

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
> I had one of those the other day.
>=20
> We were coming back into HPN in a Bonanza. We were a little late so =
we=20
> had the speed up in our descent, and were indicating about 200 MPH =
(170=20
> KIAS, more or less). We were VFR, on about a 15 mile final, when NY=20
> Aproach told us to stay off the localizer because he had a DC-9 behind =

> us on the ILS who was number 1 for the airport. Yeah right.
>=20
> So we skootched a bit over to the left and kept chugging along. The=20
> controller kept calling out the DC-9 traffic at 5 O'Clock, but we =
never=20
> saw him. Eventually, we were down to about 5 miles out, still keeping =

> pace with the DC-9 (and still not having him in sight) when the=20
> controller gave up and had us to a 360 to let him pass.
>=20
> What ever happened to first come, first served? :-)

If the DC-9 was already number 1 for the airport when you checked in,
that sounds like "first come, first served" to me, Roy. :-)

I'll bet you'll reduce your own speed the next time you're in that =
situation.
The DC-9 surely was already slowing toward the 200-kt speed limit.
Too bad the controller didn't call out the relative speeds earlier to =
you.
---JRC---

Ron Natalie wrote:

>
> Baltimore Approach always managed to get our Navion identified as a Navajo.
> I never understood this until it was pointed out to me that the approach controllers
> just shorthand in a single letter for aircraft types on VFR popups. C for Cessna,
> P for piper....

Every facility has their own procedures for tagging up the VFR targets.
We use C for Cessna and P for Piper too but we also use CK for
Cherokee TC for twin Cessna, CQ for Conquest, CT for Citation, NJ for
Navajo, NV for Navion. We have about 25 different ones for VFR use.

He also takes into account the speed you will be slowing to on final.
170 is great 10 miles out but can you do 140 until 1 mile out?



John R. Copeland wrote:

> "Roy Smith" > wrote in message ...
>
>>I had one of those the other day.
>>
>>We were coming back into HPN in a Bonanza. We were a little late so we
>>had the speed up in our descent, and were indicating about 200 MPH (170
>>KIAS, more or less). We were VFR, on about a 15 mile final, when NY
>>Aproach told us to stay off the localizer because he had a DC-9 behind
>>us on the ILS who was number 1 for the airport. Yeah right.
>>
>>So we skootched a bit over to the left and kept chugging along. The
>>controller kept calling out the DC-9 traffic at 5 O'Clock, but we never
>>saw him. Eventually, we were down to about 5 miles out, still keeping
>>pace with the DC-9 (and still not having him in sight) when the
>>controller gave up and had us to a 360 to let him pass.
>>
>>What ever happened to first come, first served? :-)
>
>
> If the DC-9 was already number 1 for the airport when you checked in,
> that sounds like "first come, first served" to me, Roy. :-)
>
> I'll bet you'll reduce your own speed the next time you're in that situation.
> The DC-9 surely was already slowing toward the 200-kt speed limit.
> Too bad the controller didn't call out the relative speeds earlier to you.
> ---JRC---
>
>
>

John Harper wrote:
> That doesn't always work either. The other day I was
> overtaking a twin on the way into Palo Alto (my home
> airport). The twin called in after me and was told #1.
> I was told to follow. I said "I'll need to make a 360".
> "No, he's a Seneca, he's much faster than you".
> "I'm overtaking him off my left wing right now"
> "What kind of Cessna are you???"
> "Skylane retractable, showing 140 indicated."
> "OK, make a right 360".


The Seneca can't fly faster than a retractable Skylane? I find that
hard to believe. Did he have an engine out? :-)


Matt

Whether it CAN or not I've no idea, not without
looking it up at home anyway, but for sure he WASN'T.

John

"Matthew S. Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> John Harper wrote:
> > That doesn't always work either. The other day I was
> > overtaking a twin on the way into Palo Alto (my home
> > airport). The twin called in after me and was told #1.
> > I was told to follow. I said "I'll need to make a 360".
> > "No, he's a Seneca, he's much faster than you".
> > "I'm overtaking him off my left wing right now"
> > "What kind of Cessna are you???"
> > "Skylane retractable, showing 140 indicated."
> > "OK, make a right 360".
>
>
> The Seneca can't fly faster than a retractable Skylane? I find that
> hard to believe. Did he have an engine out? :-)
>
>
> Matt
>

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:mIjbc.163004$Cb.1653571@attbi_s51...
>
> Every facility has their own procedures for tagging up the VFR targets.
> We use C for Cessna and P for Piper too but we also use CK for
> Cherokee TC for twin Cessna, CQ for Conquest, CT for Citation, NJ for
> Navajo, NV for Navion. We have about 25 different ones for VFR use.
>

We use up to four alphanumeric characters, the only proviso being the first
one must be a letter. Examples; a Cessna 172 would be C172, a Piper
Comanche would be a PA24, a Beech Bonanza would be a BE35, a Stinson Reliant
would be a RELI. See the pattern?

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> news:mIjbc.163004$Cb.1653571@attbi_s51...
> >
> > Every facility has their own procedures for tagging up the VFR targets.
> > We use C for Cessna and P for Piper too but we also use CK for
> > Cherokee TC for twin Cessna, CQ for Conquest, CT for Citation, NJ for
> > Navajo, NV for Navion. We have about 25 different ones for VFR use.
> >
>
> We use up to four alphanumeric characters, the only proviso being the
first
> one must be a letter. Examples; a Cessna 172 would be C172, a Piper
> Comanche would be a PA24, a Beech Bonanza would be a BE35, a Stinson
Reliant
> would be a RELI. See the pattern?

LOL, I think I do. Strangely enough, FAA seems to use official alphanumeric
characters that bear an uncanny resemblance to GRB Tracon's VFR tags. So do
all of the ARTCC's....

Chip, ZTL

"Chip Jones" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> LOL, I think I do. Strangely enough, FAA seems to use official
> alphanumeric characters that bear an uncanny resemblance to
> GRB Tracon's VFR tags. So do all of the ARTCC's....
>

We use 'em for IFR traffic too.

Try using "North American".

Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message m...
> > Some a/c names won't work consistently no matter what you say....
> >
> > "Maule 1234Foxtrot blah blah..."
>
> Baltimore Approach always managed to get our Navion identified as a Navajo.
> I never understood this until it was pointed out to me that the approach controllers
> just shorthand in a single letter for aircraft types on VFR popups. C for Cessna,
> P for piper....

A Cherokee Six is another that always evokes ATC woes. I've been called a
Warrior, Lance, Saratoga, Piper, and Cherokee. The only one that is not a PA-32
is the warrior, but there is a big speed variation between a Six and a Lance or
retractable Saratoga.




Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, "Maule Driver" > said:
> >Sometimes it would be easier to call myself a Skyhawk.
>
> If it's a high wing, call yourself a Cessna. If it's a low wing, call
> yourself a Cherokee.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> The Write Many, Read Never drive. For those people that don't know
> their system has a /dev/null already.
> -- Rik Steenwinkel, singing the praises of 8mm Exabytes

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Not that big a speed variation, in the overall range that ATC is used to
seeing. When I had a Saratoga I just called myself "Cherokee" and never had
a problem. Now that I fly a Seneca, about half the time ATC hears "Cessna",
so sometimes I just say "Piper".

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> A Cherokee Six is another that always evokes ATC woes. I've been called a
> Warrior, Lance, Saratoga, Piper, and Cherokee. The only one that is not a
PA-32
> is the warrior, but there is a big speed variation between a Six and a
Lance or
> retractable Saratoga.
>
>
>
>
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
> > In a previous article, "Maule Driver" >
said:
> > >Sometimes it would be easier to call myself a Skyhawk.
> >
> > If it's a high wing, call yourself a Cessna. If it's a low wing, call
> > yourself a Cherokee.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> > The Write Many, Read Never drive. For those people that don't know
> > their system has a /dev/null already.
> > -- Rik Steenwinkel, singing the praises of 8mm Exabytes
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> email
> http://www.andraka.com
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
>
>

"Maule Driver" wrote:
> Some a/c names won't work consistently no matter what you say....

Like "Cutlass." I've given up using that name for checking in, as it
appears 90% of controllers have no clue what a Cutlass is. I've been
answered as "Douglas," "Cutler(?)," "Cardinal," etc. The fact that some
military flights use Cutlass as part of their call signs adds to the
confusion, so now I just say "Cessna.".
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"jsmith" > wrote in message ...
> Try using "North American".
>
Mine's a Ryan.

Of course, the FAA thinks it's made by Rockwell.

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> news:mIjbc.163004$Cb.1653571@attbi_s51...
> >
> > Every facility has their own procedures for tagging up the VFR targets.
> > We use C for Cessna and P for Piper too but we also use CK for
> > Cherokee TC for twin Cessna, CQ for Conquest, CT for Citation, NJ for
> > Navajo, NV for Navion. We have about 25 different ones for VFR use.
> >
>
> We use up to four alphanumeric characters, the only proviso being the
first
> one must be a letter. Examples; a Cessna 172 would be C172, a Piper
> Comanche would be a PA24, a Beech Bonanza would be a BE35, a Stinson
Reliant
> would be a RELI. See the pattern?
>
>


How is an experimental listed?

"Gig Giacona" > wrote in message
...
>
> How is an experimental listed?
>

Depends on the aircraft.

Gig Giacona wrote:

> How is an experimental listed?

EX345

In a previous article, Peter R. > said:
>Paul Tomblin ) wrote:
>> If it's a high wing, call yourself a Cessna. If it's a low wing, call
>> yourself a Cherokee.
>
>Ha! So, does that mean someone flying an MU-2 would call it a "Cessna?" :)

"Really Fast Cessna 1234 Xray Xray level at flight level 200"


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Programmer (n): One who makes the lies the salesman told come true.